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MarxBakuninMe (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)
Give me examples. I suppose you think Holdomor was "inflicted"? Utter bullshit.
H3Vtux (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)
I would hardly consider 2.5 million are year not a lot of money....
MokomaSusi (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)
"There was no induced starvation."
There was. Can you prove otherwise?
BVargas78 (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)
To elaborate, in order so people can pay their rents, bills, and have enough for a half decent standard of living. e.g. enough for a few drinks at the bar on a friday night, or a trip to the cinema once a week. Maybe a small amount of cash to carry over for a rainy day. Even a crappy job should (in my opinion) accomodate to these modest levels of living quality. It's not much to ask for and crappy jobs need to be done too you know.
BVargas78 (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)
I understand youre perspective that some people just take the piss and i agree that that shouldnt be tolerated. Living from welfare when you can work shouldnt be a choice to people.
But sometimes people can't pay for a course to learn a skill or trade, or arent clever enough to academically do well and they get stuck in a rut in that almost all their wages go to pay for living costs, petrol, taxes fuel bills. In the developed world tere should be a minimum standard, even for the lowest paid.
762delivered (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)
I don't know what your definition of exploitation is. Nobody is FORCED to work a crappy job when ANYONE can go to a junior college, better themselves, and make that money. Or perhaps learn a trade and become your own boss. Ignorance, laziness and stupidity rightly should be painful. I shouldn't have to pay for the slob who doesn't want to work to just sit around and eat twinkies all day.
BVargas78 (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)
The Right Wing argues that if you don't force people to study hard and push themselves to the max, they'll get lazy and wont get anywere in life. Maybe get stuck in a 'dead end job'.
If this is their choice so be it in my books, some people arent that good at studying or academia but it doesnt mean we should exploit them with jobs that only pay the bills, only because they are not very clever. This can push people to crime as an alternative, or extremist views which costs more to police
BVargas78 (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)
people can be born lazy. in my books everyone has to pull their weight and contribute to a point. but this is different to exploitation. I'm not a supporter of communism, but i am a supporter of swedish/norwegian style social democracy.
It's actually cheaper to tax low wage earners less, than it is to maintain criminals who don't want to work in prison. Improve the cost of living you'll get more less people turn to crime as an alternative.
Badasscow (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)
@ H3Vtux: it's the argument of nature versus nuture. If you've ever heard of Jamie Bulger you'll probably know what happened to him (was murdered by 2 10 year olds), his murderers had never been hurt in anyway by their parents and both had relatively normal lives; yet they abducted and murdered a 3 or 4 year old (i forget) in cold blood. It raises the argument can people be born evil, and if they can, why can't people be born lazy?
MarxBakuninMe (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)
There was no induced starvation. That is a lie repeated by East European nationalists who want to fool their peoples. I never said that the deaths were excusable by the way; stop trying to pigeon hole me. |
